Karl (00:02.28)
Welcome to Mighty Municipalities, the podcast about small municipalities and how they can punch above their weight. I'm your host, Carl McAllister, and along with my co-host Mark Parton and our guests, we take you through the highs and lows of working in a small municipality. Whether it's the hardship and frustration that is holding you back or the progress and winds that are propelling you forward, we're here to share the lessons learned and give you strategies to help improve your community. Mark, how are you doing today?

Mark Partin (00:27.521)
Doing great. here we are on September 2nd. Hard to believe the summer has already passed and we're on to the fall and everything. Pumpkin spice.

Karl (00:34.371)
Right.

Yeah. There's a I follow there's the st I think it's Pittsburgh dad and he just had a Instagram or YouTube short or whatever. like it being September first and all of a sudden his his house changing completely and and having him having a scarf on and his wife doing potpourri in the in the hot pot. So So that's 'tis the season. it doesn't feel like it here yet, but it it is the season.

Mark Partin (00:56.757)
Yes. Yes. I can't remember that's right. No it doesn't. We're probably in the mid nineties today, so it's definitely not all yet.

Karl (01:07.538)
Yes.

Yes, Summer has a thing or two more to say in South Carolina. So well great. so had a c you know, as always, Mark you and I have a couple topics to start to talk about and so I thought I'd start with the municipal association had well, state legislature first passed a law recently changing how election laws work for municipalities. and the municipal association has done a great job and we'll reference both their podcast

and their article in the in the show notes. But the biggest thing is one, if you're under a population t of ten thousand effective January first, you may know may no longer have an election commission. The county has to do it and the county is legally required by state law to take that over. So that's a that's that's probably the biggest change. But then there are a bunch of little changes around what or basically when you can have it and so i there are now

a set of five permissible election dates and I won't go through them because they're you know most of them are like the f your first, second, third, fourth, Tuesday, depending on which month. but one of them i f but most of the time it's gonna align with odd number of years so it's not gonna be during presidential and congressional elections unless you already happen to have your election in an even number of year in June. so

there so unless you already have that, you're and if you don't already match with one of the other ones, you have to choose one of the odd number year election spots. so that's a big change as far as dates that it has. so and then finally the other big change is it does give a default if you don't have something in your ordinance about when the new council member takes office, the default now is the first council meeting.

Karl (03:09.04)
following the following the certification of the election. So so that's you know you can s you can have something up to eighty days from that

Mark Partin (03:16.363)
Yeah.

Karl (03:22.44)
or I think forty yeah, forty-eight hours. Forty-eight hours eighty days is the acceptable range. If you don't, it defaults to the next council meeting. And what was interesting, our friend Eric mentioned in in the the podcast at the municipal association, as well as the other attorney that one thing it doesn't mention and it's worth putting in your ordinance is whether that's the term starts at the beginning of that council meeting or at the end of that council meeting. Or you could even say at the swearing in

point right because right so if that is the if the council meeting is the transition date is it the outgoing council members who are presiding and then handing it off or is it that they're doing the swearing in and then the new council members are starting immediately right so that's an important thing to know especially if you know and it and a very important thing to have settled in your ordinance especially if there's a contentious election right because if it says it starts at the council meeting what does that mean? So I I felt found those were you know some very

Mark Partin (04:00.588)
Yeah.

Mark Partin (04:13.991)
Absolutely, yeah.

Karl (04:22.299)
You know, it may seem like weird, you know, odd changes on the margins, but it can certainly affect people, especially if you consider, you know, what when they're currently doing elections, if they're doing it an odd know, a not I won't use the words even or odd, but an unusual time, in an even numbered year and they no longer can do that and now it's moving to an odd year, that potentially is shortening somebody's term, right? And so which terms get shortened or especially if you don't if you have staggered elections and things like that. So

Mark Partin (04:46.486)
Mm-hmm.

Karl (04:52.539)
I I think it's one of those things where, you know, every municipality here in South Carolina should really be carefully looking at, making sure the their dates align and then you know s it's a great opportunity to settle those questions, you know, and then also make sure everybody's on board with what

Mark Partin (04:56.412)
Hello.

Mark Partin (05:06.378)
Right.

Karl (05:10.381)
who you know if you have to shorten a term, whose term is that going to be? I mean it should be the next term up, right, is the is the one that gets shortened. Now luckily this does not take play take effect this calendar year, so it does not affect this year's elections, but it does it is effective as of January 1st, 2027. So if you're already doing even or odd number year elections as you should be or as as most people do, I think, you know, your next election is the one that's up.

Mark Partin (05:37.791)
Yeah, a couple questions that come to my mind in listening you talk about that is one, I I think it's good that they're bringing some uniformity to the actual start of the term, you know, because it was varying lengths beforehand.

Karl (05:47.501)
Mm-hmm. Yes.

Mark Partin (05:54.855)
And you know, if if it's not defined and there is a contentious election, then you could potentially drag it out in a not so good way. But what do you think, and this is strictly your opinion, I'm asking you this on the fly, on the election commissions moving to the county on smaller size communities, what do you think are a couple benefits and potentially challenges that are coming with this?

Karl (06:00.95)
Mm-hmm.

Karl (06:06.859)
Yeah, absolutely yeah.

Karl (06:14.411)
Yeah.

Karl (06:23.789)
Well, you can certainly see and and I remember there have been news stories around just irregularities as far as especially you know with smaller town elections about where the you know, where the voting booth is, when it was open,

you know, integrity of the process, things like that. And so I I'm sure some of the intent of the state legislature was, you know, let's let's resolve this because we keep seeing these things happen in small towns where, you know, people just you know, people are complaining about how they hadn't been able to vote or figure out how to vote or things like that. So I'm sure that's part of it. the of course the challenge I think is that, you know, it for a lot of these smaller towns they're also in some of the smallest counties who may already have some of those issues.

Mark Partin (07:06.135)
Yeah.

Karl (07:07.439)
themselves. so you know, at least you're I guess you're taking five issues and consolidating them to one. If you're talking about four small municipalities in a county. so I'm sure that at least makes it a little bit easier for the state election commission to have some oversight and to work with the the counties to do that. And clearly it also reduces costs

Mark Partin (07:14.881)
Yeah.

Karl (07:27.711)
especially if the county and the municipality weren't sharing you know devices and things like that. Which I think in most cases they are, right? so I'm not sure how big of an issue that is. Yeah, I I think the the

Mark Partin (07:34.454)
Right.

Karl (07:45.014)
I think it's mostly a benefit and I think it is good that they clarified and just made it require that the counties take it on. I mean I'm sure the counties aren't appreciating what they would consider probably an un un unfunded mandate in that case. But I mean that is also why I think they're standardizing the dates so that they match up with the dates that likely the county is already doing.

Mark Partin (07:46.015)
Yeah.

Mark Partin (07:59.21)
Right.

Karl (08:08.607)
So I I I'm sure that's part of their thought. You you're probably already doing election for counting offices that time, so it should not be a problem to do the municipal offices at at the same time, right? There's really no additional cost to add people to the ballot. or at least, you know, very minor cost, you know, a couple percentage points to do the extra counting and tallying of that that time. So I I see it mostly as benefit. it is interesting, of course, that if you are above ten thousand

Mark Partin (08:21.473)
Very.

Mark Partin (08:27.616)
Right.

Karl (08:38.611)
and would like to get rid of your election commission. That is not, there's no requirement for the county to take it if you don't have an election commission or if you disband yours. So one of the frequently asked questions on the article was exactly that, like you you know, make sure that your county is on board with taking it, because you if you just disband it, you still have to somebody's gotta be responsible. and it's the county can charge you for that. and you know, there is actually they do have a they are planning to come out with a a cost a standard.

Mark Partin (08:43.863)
Mm-hmm.

Mark Partin (08:53.537)
Right.

Karl (09:08.431)
set of costs at the state level that says if your municipality and I'm assuming it's gonna be based on number of voters, right? yeah, if the county can charge the municipality for those elections. and so the so they so they can recoup their costs and not have to pay out of pocket for that. So I I take it back. It isn't quite unfunded. There is a a plan for a funding mechanism from the municipality still to to cover the costs.

Mark Partin (09:20.086)
Right.

Mark Partin (09:32.949)
Right. Well, I can see, you know, as you mentioned, lower cost overall, but you know, with the onset of using electronic voting machines, those are expensive. So I can see where that would definitely be beneficial to have one entity overseeing those as opposed to two with duplicate machines. So yeah. It'll be interesting to see how yeah.

Karl (09:52.621)
Yes.

And and really even duplicate staff. you know, I mean having to get I you know, I've I've done a couple polling stations for Richland County and I can't even imagine having to then have a municipality maintain a list of you know, of volunte volunteers of poll workers, pay to poll workers, handling all that payroll excess during that time. it's just like another jury duty list. and then also having to handle training for those people to make sure that they're properly doing it.

Mark Partin (10:23.712)
Right.

Karl (10:24.719)
A very rigorous process of what you can and can't ask, what you can and cannot do, which I've I I've even heard several county people here in Richland County break or be be very close to the line of breaking when I'm working with them. So I can just imagine that you know it makes it even more likely that that happens at a small municipality if the training isn't rigorous.

Mark Partin (10:36.321)
Yes. Uh-huh.

Mark Partin (10:51.529)
Right. Mm hmm. And you know everybody that walks in the door so I don't have what I need today, just let me vote.

Karl (10:58.079)
Right, right, yeah, yeah. That or you know, and you know, I I've certainly had where, you know

Yeah, they they make assumptions about who you might be voting for and talk that way and they shouldn't be talking about that. But it's very difficult and I think even more difficult to do that at the at the small town level where you know everybody's friends and everybody knows each other and you know you probably do have a a informed opinion of about every candidate. And yet you you're not allowed to express that.

Mark Partin (11:07.894)
Yes, yes.

Mark Partin (11:13.975)
Two, three.

Mark Partin (11:25.269)
Yeah.

Mark Partin (11:30.391)
well, if you're ready to move on, we'll talk about another topic that has been on my mind particularly and it's on workforce development and transitions coming up in the workforce. And this is an area I do a pretty decent amount of research on and my research mainly focuses on smaller communities, you know, fifty thousand or less, seventy five thousand or less. So you know, some of the things that

Karl (11:36.801)
Yeah, what you have, Mark.

Karl (11:54.357)
Mm.

Yeah.

Mark Partin (12:00.147)
are an issue I can't really speak to in larger cities. But in general there's occurring and more to come in the next few years, a large turnover of public servants just because of age and and number of years in service. And there's sort of a vacuum behind that where there's not a natural

Karl (12:20.425)
Mm-hmm.

Mark Partin (12:22.431)
pipeline of people coming into public service because you know generations think differently. the opinion of government's not always the best these days and so and people wanna you know be better compensated than sometimes local governments can pay. so there it needs to be an intentional

Karl (12:29.877)
Mm-hmm.

Karl (12:35.585)
Mm.

Karl (12:43.18)
Mm-hmm.

Mark Partin (12:47.915)
thought process and system put into place in your community for bringing those people on board. And they're needed at all levels of of staff, not just the management level, but all level of staff and and in in some cases it's more difficult to find entry level positions than it is management positions. And you know, so we need to

Karl (13:07.725)
Sure. Right.

Mark Partin (13:13.395)
intentionally identify those individuals and show them that working in local government is a rewarding career and you know has a lot of benefits to it. And and the connecting the reward to the service and by reward I mean more intrinsic reward, not financial reward, that does speak to the younger generation because they are more interested in knowing they make a difference and they don't always see

Karl (13:34.411)
Mm.

Karl (13:41.846)
Mm-hmm.

Mark Partin (13:43.241)
Government work as making a difference, but it does. You know, you know, delivering safe drinking water and taking care of wastewater and public safety and you know all the different human services functions that governments do, those are vital for society to function. And it does make a difference when you deliver those services and deliver them with excellence. So we as existing

Karl (13:47.061)
Right. Yeah.

Karl (13:51.949)
Yeah.

Karl (14:10.157)
Mm-hmm.

Mark Partin (14:13.165)
staff sort of shepherding the next generation, we really need to share with them the value that they they can make a difference, and it does make a difference locally as well as culturally at large. So you know some communities are doing sort of like citizen academies where they introduce people to those opportunities.

Karl (14:25.879)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Karl (14:36.62)
Mm-hmm.

Mark Partin (14:42.923)
some community or some colleges are are recruiting specifically for that for their MPA programs. And then, you know, in the utility side, there's an emphasis on bringing more people into the workforce for handling water and sewer and and that's actually one of our grants we'll talk about shortly. But but all of these positions are they're very

Karl (14:48.929)
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

Karl (15:03.757)
Right.

Mark Partin (15:09.589)
I I mean I'm biased because I work in it but they're very interesting and and we sell our shel self short if we don't emphasize how these jobs work and you know what you can do and you know we have engineers, we have chemists, you know, and on down the line. We have highly skilled people doing these jobs and and they're great jobs to have. So I think workforce development is something that's going to stay on our mind and in our

Karl (15:12.139)
Yeah. Yeah.

Karl (15:22.604)
Mm-hmm.

Karl (15:28.139)
Right.

Mark Partin (15:39.539)
strategies for several years to come. And w one more thing before I'll turn it to you to see if you have any thoughts on it. But one thing that's different now as well, and this is not just in local government as much as the jobs overall, but the the employer is having to go get employees or potential employees more than ever. They used to come to you.

Karl (15:57.101)
Mm.

Karl (16:07.271)
Mm-hmm. Right. Mm-hmm.

Mark Partin (16:09.939)
You have to go to them. You know, you could post a job previously and receive, you know, fifty applications. Now you post a job and you may not get any. So you have to call around and start recruiting people. I think I heard one person say, and I won't name them since I haven't received their permission, but in one particular department they said they used to receive ten applications for every position.

Karl (16:17.727)
Mm-hmm.

Karl (16:22.155)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Karl (16:31.084)
Yeah.

Karl (16:38.284)
Mm-hmm.

Mark Partin (16:39.083)
Now they might receive one and they have to go out and get them. so that that's a just a difference in the mindset of generations on how they approach seeking jobs.

Karl (16:41.015)
Right.

Karl (16:44.353)
Right.

Karl (16:52.353)
Mm-hmm.

Mark Partin (16:52.975)
in addition to just the the number of people that are flowing out. So it's a it's a complex problem that requires a complex answer and you know worthy of our time. And and I I spent a decent amount of time working in workforce development overall, whether it's through training or how do we recruit, how do we you know communicate better about our profession. So it's it's worthy of a lot of attention and I know I'm biased, but it's worthy of a lot of

Karl (16:58.37)
Right.

Karl (17:02.53)
Mm-hmm.

Karl (17:11.989)
Mm-hmm.

Karl (17:22.379)
Yeah. Well well absolutely I think to a certain extent even a in a a smaller town, right, that becomes even more critical if you only have, you know, again

Mark Partin (17:22.649)
Well.

Karl (17:34.798)
you know, three or four people in admin and a few people in public services and maybe like two or three people in the police department, a lot of institutional knowledge can walk out the door. and maybe it has to because of, you know, bad behavior or whatever, but it's still can be a a huge loss, as far as just knowledge of the community, knowledge of what's going on,

So, you know, managing this can be critical and it becomes even more critical when you're smaller. And it's one of those things that I think is just a huge challenge for for at the smallest level if you're you know, again, a town manager with maybe 10 employees or you're a clerk with four, you know, having to have that hat on and in addition to every other hat, it gets even more more difficult to spend time on. You mentioned the you know the the the difficulty of you know getting applicants and the number of

Mark Partin (18:17.45)
Yeah.

Karl (18:27.919)
applicants. Is that true across position types? Because I think you know within municipal government we have everything from effectively like you know laborer positions all the way up to you know executive positions. Is that consistent across type of position where there's that dearth of applicants or is it do you see it more in one area than another?

Mark Partin (18:54.571)
My findings it's been largely across the board, but there are different tiers to it. So in my findings the most difficult ones are the entry level positions and then middle management and then executive would be the easiest and I use that term lightly to find. but yeah, so

Karl (18:59.287)
Mm-hmm.

Karl (19:14.091)
least yeah. Right. Yeah. But at that point, you know, you're you're drawing from a pool of people who are already engaged in in most likely. right. Or at the very least they've been in business management and they're looking for a change. So they're probably their job seeking skills are much more advanced than your entry level person. Yeah. Right. Okay.

Mark Partin (19:23.411)
Exactly, yeah.

Mark Partin (19:35.421)
Exactly, yeah. Mm-hmm. And then also just and I think this is a result of the flattening of organizations, all types of business organizations. there aren't as many middle managers out there

Karl (19:45.035)
Mm-hmm.

Karl (19:50.493)
Mm-hmm. Right. Yeah. Yes.

Mark Partin (19:51.699)
in any industry as there used to be. So we've we've essentially lost a generation of middle management that we still need. Now maybe you don't need five layers of middle management, but you still need middle management. And you know, they're just they they're not in the pipeline because there was nowhere to go. So now that that has that pipeline has to be filled up again to fill those middle management positions.

Karl (20:01.301)
Mm-hmm.

Karl (20:05.676)
Right.

Karl (20:10.733)
Mm-hmm.

Karl (20:16.107)
Right.

Mm-hmm.

Mark Partin (20:20.043)
But the largest I think the largest segment is the most difficult to feel is that entry level position.

Karl (20:26.637)
Sure. and you know, and my gut is especially for at least again, th maybe municipalities above ten thousand, when you're looking at some of those mid level and executive level positions, there's certainly a a group of people who are coming out of college who I would call the Parks and Recs kids, who you know have a favorable view of working in local government despite some of the tongue in cheek part of that.

Mark Partin (20:53.121)
Yeah.

Karl (20:53.619)
of that show who definitely have an interest in doing public service at the local level. So that I think it certainly helped over the last, you know, even decade, right? I mean it's probably been what probably a decade since the Parks and Rex is Parks and Rec has been out normally, but you know, that's it still has a lot of a big following and a lot of people who have watched that and streamed it since then. and I think that certainly has helped the you know more executive level things. On the entry one, you know

Mark Partin (21:06.645)
Yes.

Karl (21:22.515)
Have you seen you know one of my thoughts is I think traditionally if we're going and I when I say traditionally going back to like, you know, the eighties and before, a lot of that happened with kids who were potentially in high school starting as a summer job or kids coming straight out of high school doing those jobs. Do you how do you feel like the

know, from your experience you've seen the connection of the municipality to the high school to and to the even the technical colleges for those who have them nearby for recruiting into those types of positions to say, hey, you know, this is something where you can start making money immediately, you have health care immediately, and y you don't need to have a bachelor's degree to have an advancement path.

Mark Partin (22:12.529)
well speaking locally, you know, what we have experience in. we are in the l local schools, public and private, doing it's called the Emerging Leaders Program. And it's not really geared just towards local government service, but staying local and working. so it's it is exposing those age kids to

Karl (22:21.749)
Mm-hmm.

Karl (22:26.796)
Yes.

Karl (22:31.487)
Mm-hmm. Sure.

Mark Partin (22:41.331)
opportunities that are are available locally and they get exposure to it during the process. most of them are assigned to or all of them are assigned to sit in with a nonprofit board throughout the year and they're they're an active member of the board so they see the behind the scenes workings of what all these different organizations do. So we are opening their eyes to the possibility. But I think

Karl (22:47.266)
Mm-hmm.

Karl (22:55.197)
Okay. Right.

Karl (23:03.894)
Mm-hmm.

Mm-hmm.

Mark Partin (23:10.011)
One thing that that we need to do better and not just us but everywhere is making the connection from that program to jobs.

Karl (23:19.624)
Mm-hmm. Right.

Mark Partin (23:20.159)
you know, specific jobs. We're just sort of selling it as these are possibilities in the community, where we could maybe direct it more towards these, you know, jobs that are actually open at the time. And then a another piece you mentioned, you know, making them aware that they, you know, will have good pay and benefits right away. a lot of

Karl (23:24.149)
Right. Right.

Karl (23:32.118)
Mm-hmm.

Karl (23:38.636)
Yeah.

Mark Partin (23:42.783)
the younger generation don't and I don't mean to be critical of them, but they don't see the need for that as much. And and I was the same way, 'cause when you're 18, 19 years old, you don't get sick. You know, so you don't you don't think about it. And and I'm gonna retire sometime in the future, that's way out there. I don't need to worry about a pencil. So again, they need to we need to do a better job of educating them about how vital these benefits are to securing their future.

Karl (23:47.053)
Mm-hmm.

Karl (23:51.211)
Yeah. Right.

Karl (23:56.011)
Right, right.

Karl (24:03.041)
You're right, right, right, right.

Karl (24:11.893)
Right. Right.

Mark Partin (24:12.697)
future and your you know if you hope to have a family one day, your family's future and not just go on a day by day, you know, let me get my paycheck every couple of weeks and do what I want with it. so so we we have some educating. Society has some educating that we need to do to bring these younger people on board.

Karl (24:17.025)
Right.

Right.

Karl (24:24.149)
Absolutely right. Yeah. Right.

Karl (24:32.189)
Mm-hmm. Well a and even just, you know, and again I'm you know, spitballing here, but let's say you have a a solid waste position or a you know, a grounds position or something that is opened in the spring and you've only received, you know, one like you said, one or two applicants from it

i wouldn't it not be would it be an interesting idea to basically go out to the high schools and hire for the same hourly rate, like two or three kids just for the summer and, you know, they then have the hands on experience to do that. Is there a chance that they're gonna come back? probably not. But you know I certainly had in my high school experience and, you know, when I was doing summer jobs and temping, I've had discussions with and gave more than zero consideration towards

you know, staying in that job, right? Like they were you know I I've certainly requ recruited that hey, if you stayed in here you'd have this path, and you do this kind of thing. And course I had other ambitions that were outside of that job that I was doing, so that wasn't a right fit for me. But you know

Mark Partin (25:30.4)
Right.

Karl (25:43.886)
I I you know, there there was a you know, one summer I was working do collecting you know, processing the quarterly tax payments as a temp for the IRS and I got offered a job, you know, and I you know, it was probably, you know, good you know, I'm sure it was a great wage, frankly. even in that that time of year, you know, time and back in the nineties.

Mark Partin (25:52.172)
Yeah.

Karl (26:04.469)
Yeah, it that, you know, could have been a a a great possibility. I'm sure they recruited other people out of that as well. And so even that same thing I I feel like

and again this is probably a rosy color glasses of the past but I feel like it was much more likely that like some parent would bring their kid in and they would just start working in the summers because the kid needed a job, right? and we were and municipalities felt they were a lot more flexible to do that kind of thing. you know, just kinda like somebody came in and you were like, sure well you know, we can

Mark Partin (26:34.571)
Yeah.

Karl (26:44.687)
We there's certainly use the you'll figure out how to yeah, we'll get you hired and we'll figure out how to d do it, right? and I think that was much more of an attitude back in the, you know

in in the eighties and nineties and before than it is today where I think people feel like for that kind of thing they have to have a job position req and they have to, you know, have this thing out. And, you know, I think that's where a lot of the workforce came from those days is that people kinda fell into it even straight out of high school. And, you know, we've been we've kind of cut off that pipeline, for for a lot of people where, you know, because of, you know, what we felt about labor, I don't know if it's a thought

Mark Partin (26:56.404)
Yes.

Mark Partin (27:13.705)
Yeah.

Karl (27:24.823)
thought about labor laws or fairness and hiring hiring practices or you know or liability or all the three or a combination of them all. But we've certain I I feel like we've almost gotten too formal on that that we're missing an opportunity to you know no matter what the kid, there's probably an opportunity if let's say you're paying, you know, you're paying above minimum wage and you're probably paying better than you know most of the

Mark Partin (27:32.32)
Yeah.

Karl (27:53.155)
jobs available to high school students, frankly, you know, at that point.

a for your f for entry level position even in the smallest town because the smallest town is economically depressed potentially on the other side anyway. So like with the exception of like high large urban areas and and suburbs, you know, and there's a l there's a good chance that your entry level job for a high school student is paying as well or better than any other high school job that's potentially out there. and so using that as a recruiting method seems to me like an opportunity that that we miss.

Mark Partin (28:26.013)
Mm-hmm. Absolutely, yeah. And I I did want to go back and say it at least in the case of you know, municipality I work in, Sumter we do have summer interns and and they they often lead to working into a job, you know, and our our safety director was a summer intern and he's done a fabulous job. and Yes.

Karl (28:27.874)
Yeah.

Karl (28:33.601)
Yeah, yeah. Yes, yeah, yeah. Right? Yeah. Yeah.

Right. Yeah, and I think about in your communications department, you've had that several times. And so the idea of potentially doing that, you know, down at the labor level. yeah it seems like we should be able to replicate those results. Right. Yeah. Yeah. It'd be interesting. Anyway, yeah, I'm all in Mark, you know that well that's fascinating. Yeah. So

Mark Partin (28:57.397)
Yeah. So so internships do work. Yeah.

Yeah, so so there's there's a lot in work. Yes.

Karl (29:16.141)
Let's see where w

See this is where okay, I'm I'm trying to figure out where we are time-wise. is there a clock on this thing? 29. Okay. So we're right at 30 minutes. So you want to cut it from here? and we can do the other ones later? Okay. Okay. Cool. so yeah, so Mark, yeah, so that I you again, you know, any last thoughts on

Mark Partin (29:24.823)
Yeah, we're roughly thirty minutes. Yeah. Sure, yeah. Yeah.

Karl (29:43.649)
Workforce development, I think we both agree, you know, there's some opportunities there and some yeah, and it's of course critically important. what were your w parting thoughts on that?

Mark Partin (29:52.999)
if you aren't thinking about it, start thinking about it and do what you can. It doesn't matter if you're a staff of three or a staff of a hundred. you need to be thinking about it and there are things you can do that apply to your organization and and do them. So you know, if you wait until somebody leaves it's too late, yeah.

Karl (29:56.759)
Mm-hmm.

Karl (30:15.009)
Yes. Yeah.

Great. And so with that, let's move on to grants. So there are a good number of them coming up here in the next month, month and a half. there's actually, I think, the that South Carolina Archives grant we talked about last two closes today on the second. So you know good luck to all of you who applied Next up, first for our North Carolina listeners, there are a couple around, still around Hurricane Helene

Mark Partin (30:38.817)
Yes.

Karl (30:47.255)
So of course that was what 2024 at this point and there's still a lot of it just tells you about the scope of what happened in the mountains and that there are still debris disposal grants up to three million available and then basically follow-up now that you've finally gotten everything at least in a stable situation they have resiliency grants up to 15 million. So if you're if you're a North Carolina county or in a North Carolina county that was affected by Hurricane Helene and they have the map up there,

Some great opportunities to not only finish if there are still parts out there that need cleaned up, but as well as then you know look at things like you know bridge reinforcement, you know, creek abatement, things like that to help you know improve the resiliency of your community in c in case hopefully this doesn't happen again, but in case the next time it happens, your municipality maybe is in a better shape to address it and and weather it.

Mark Partin (31:48.045)
the next grant we have I mentioned briefly a while ago and this is from the EPA.

And it's a w water infrastructure workforce development grant. And those grants are up to one million dollars, and they are focusing on developing workforce for water, sewer, and stormwater, because as we mentioned in the workforce discussion, a lot of those professionals are retiring and there are a lot of vacancies left. And because of issues like Hurricane Helene and

water shortages, you know, particularly in the western part of the country. water is becoming even more important in how do we process it, what do we do with the what stormwater, you know, safely take care of it. Those are extremely important issues and we need a a very educated and experienced workforce. So some great grant opportunities there from the EPA with an October 5th deadline. So you have a little over a month to work on that one.

Yeah.

Karl (32:53.557)
Yeah, so what a great way to, you know, leverage some federal money to help figure that out and take some chances on some of these things to expand your your workforce. also on October fifth, the Bureau of Justice is doing public safety crisis response training grants up to six hundred and fifty K. And again, so just like it sounds like if you if you have a public safety workforce,

Mark Partin (32:59.467)
Yeah.

Karl (33:17.527)
w how do they respond in a crisis? Whether that's a

you know, a civil unrest or whether that's a you know, the thing if you think about Ohio and the chemical train, what you know, how how prepared is your municipality at the public safety level, the administration level to address that? And so and Mark and I were just talking about our yeah the city of Sumter's disaster recovery and and we'll probably bring bringing that up for a future topic, but that idea of of supplying training funding to your public safety group to to help be better prepared

Mark Partin (33:56.235)
Yes. The next one has a deadline of October eighth and it is for from the North Carolina Trails Association. So any of our North Carolina listeners, there are grants available to build

connectors to existing trails, not build new trails, but existing trails and the grants do have some matching requirements, but grant funds are available from $10,000 to $100,000 and great opportunity to expand a network if you already have one. Some other requirements that you know have to be open for public use and things like that. But those are those are usually requirements you're already taken care of when you develop a a trail system in your community anyway.

Yeah.

Karl (34:41.387)
Right. Yeah, and think about, you know, what a great economic development driver that can be. If there's a there is a state trail, you know, and potentially you're having, you know, thousands of people hiking up and down that every year, having that ability to, you know, have them, you know, come by, see your town, stop by for lunch and then continue on the trail or even stay there for the night before they continue on. I mean that's a a great economic development driver, from a tourism standpoint.

on 10 9, the DOT Federal Highway Administration is has their surface transportation resiliency protect grant. And so the idea of this is and it was a little vague on the site. The main pay page said that it covers any surface transportation. The federal highway transportation page was much more around roads. So, you know, when we talk about any surface transportation, that would be also bikes, pedestrians, things like that. But the you know if you have a

place within your municipality that where you know there's a a very s you know a steep drop off where the road goes along the side of a hill that really needs reinforced you know if there's a dam that goes you know that is in front of or that your road goes over thinking about things like that getting a grant to

to address those sorts of issues. And so it's an eighty twenty grant. It is up to sixty million dollars though. so if you can get that twenty percent and and that twenty percent can be covered by other grants according to the the rules and the the grant proposals. So again if you have a a section like that that you've been planning and and started doing the work towards improving to make it more resilient again in the case of a a thing like hurricane halene of course then this that is for you

Mark Partin (36:28.951)
The next one I think is a very interesting one and it's from the US Department of Agriculture Forestry Service and these grants have a deadline of October twelfth and the grant values range from two hundred thousand to seven hundred and fifty thousand, but this is for

Normally when you think of forestry grants you think of tree planting services or tree banks or things like this. But this one is geared around what do you do with trimmings and and leftover from cleanups and and you know trimming back trees and not just where do you put it but what are some creative things you can do with that leftovers and scraps. So

I'm gonna put a a bookmark on this and see what comes around because I I personally have never heard of that approach, but it it could be interesting to see what what happens with it.

Karl (37:24.278)
Right.

Yeah, and and I I know the city has a a forested section that they've set aside reserved for future use. And so that I think that's one of the things if you've if your municipality is fortunate enough to be granted a piece of land or has you know an easement or something where that has been set aside. Maybe that's a future industrial park site or something like that. While that is unused, this is helping you plan to to make better utilization of the the forested property in the meantime, which I think is is a fascinating.

a subject. So and so next we have on October twentieth the AmeriCorps Senior Program. And I love this one. This is one I've been wanting to talk about as a separate topic for a while. I was in Columbus, Ohio and there was a a senior

Mark Partin (38:08.119)
Very well.

Karl (38:13.345)
program there that combined entrepreneurship that I thought was fascinating and fabulous and love to talk more about. but this is around that idea of AmeriCorps has a I think they call it the RSVP program, but it's a senior volunteer program versus their youth program. I think if you're familiar with AmeriCorps at all, most are are familiar with the idea of it being kind of like the Peace Corps where somebody's coming out of college and they devote two years to working for a you know working for AmeriCorps who then tasks

them out to municipality or or someplace to do service work. So this is instead a the senior end of that. So once they're retired, helping encourage seniors to volunteer and do things. And it's up to $75,000 for the program itself. And then based on the number of and they say it's unique volunteers so not like you know Rosie comes and volunteers three times that's not three volunteers that's just one Rosie. $350 per volunteer towards funding or you know some

supplies or materials and things like that for them. So again another interesting one that I I think deserves more a second look for most of y'all.

Mark Partin (39:20.567)
Mm-hmm. And the last one for today is from the South Carolina Department of Commerce, and it has an October 30th deadline. It is a competitive grant for municipalities and counties for the Rur Rural Development Initiative. And these grants are up to five hundred thousand dollars. but there is pretty wide open opportunity of what you can do with this. it it is for

economic development in your community and it can do things such as improving your infrastructure. So if you do have some you know water lines that need replaced or some roads that need fixing, etc., expanding housing opportunity, downtown work, public spaces, parks, anything doing with improving quality of life. So a lot of opportunities fall within this grant. So it's not as pigeonholed as some of the other ones.

I would encourage you to take a look at this if you're in South Carolina and qualify under this area.

Karl (40:26.967)
Great. Well Mark, thanks again for a great conversation and look forward to the next one.

Mark Partin (40:32.895)
Same here. I hope you have a great rest of your day. Bye.

Karl (40:36.289)
Thanks Mark Bye.